“Reynoso has the beautiful possibility of vindicating himself and reversing a stigma”

He has written a self-fiction trilogy that he has already concluded. However, he has decided that this project, that of recounting the joys and catastrophes of the national team, will continue every four years no matter what happens. Three, two, one…

—How is it that someone who writes poetry, who must condense great truths in a few words, publishes an encyclopedia of the Peruvian selection of more than 500 pages?

Because although I work with the economics of language, as a reader one has several facets and I have always liked popular books. Beyond the classic novels or the great books of poetry, one can entertain one afternoon with a book that tells the story of the Argentine national team, for example. And I warned that there was no book on the Peruvian national team, which was understandable: we were stuck for almost four decades in the third level of world football.

“Why tell a languid story of triumphs?”

It seems to me that it is worth telling, because it is a parallel story in many ways to the great history of official Peru. A story in which there are highly talented individuals, certain moments of glory and plenitude, and also great collective catastrophes. Involution, bewilderment, underdevelopment. Something that defines us is not being up to the task in the big moments. That also marked the so-called golden generation of the 70s’.

—That disability is circular, isn’t it? It happened to us a few months ago in Doha…

One of Gareca’s merits is that the psychological weight of some situations could be overcome by players who did not have a great football lineage. There were results that led us to think that this stage was over. But the match against Australia has given us a strong blow that we still haven’t finished assimilating, because these things are assimilated with time and perspective. I am sure that over the years it will be remembered as the failure towards Germany 74 or the Santiago match in 97. Disastrous and inexplicable events that mark us to a certain extent. What hurts me the most about the game against Australia is not having been eliminated from a World Cup, but being aware that there are certain issues that we are still prisoners of.

—You mention in your book that you are not the most effusive of the fans, how did you react when Valera missed the penalty?

I was kneeling in front of the television, outside my room, in silence, with all the tension in the world. I stayed frozen. We all froze. Suddenly the whole city fell into a deep silence. Suddenly the country had entered into a mourning from which it took us several days to get out. A mourning mixed with disbelief. Because if it had been with a team that generated more respect for us, perhaps it would have been more digestible. But with Australia we never thought to reach this circumstance. It wasn’t like the match in Santiago, where the massacre was so clear that it didn’t take us long to understand what its consequences would be.

—At your 46 years, what has been the closest thing to that silence?

There are parallels that are not comparable in his tragedy. Blackout nights in the 80s. But that is something much more serious and football does not have that importance. It is the most important of the least important. I remember Lima on the night of October 12, 1997. We went from euphoria to regret. For more than twenty years we did not have a match like this, where everything was played for everything.

—This defeat against Australia was enough for this new edition?

One thing is the reason that triggers a project and the other is the will to continue a project. Even if we don’t qualify for the next three World Cups, I’m going to continue this story. It seems to me that it is necessary. In other countries popular books are numerous. There is an industry that produces them and authors who specialize. Here we have the case of Ricardo Bedoya with Peruvian cinema. He has several books in which he systematically delves into this cultural aspect. I would like to do the same and I already have a great base to not give up and abandon the project even if things don’t go well. I never hesitated to publish this book despite the loss to Australia. It seemed to me that we had to talk about the Gareca era and compile what happened, game by game, with the twists and turns of a process that still seems to me the most important that we have experienced since the time of Marcos Calderón.

—Do you feel that you have been fair to Gareca in the book? You tend to be ruthless with your judgments, but your lapidary post-elimination post never came.

I abound in the errors of Gareca. But since Gareca had this failure there have been many voices that have dedicated themselves to relativizing the Argentine’s achievements and I think he is deeply petty. That does not mean that he has not made mistakes and that they should not be made clear. Since Oblitas no coach had transcended beyond eighteen points. Gareca twice broke the psychological barrier of twenty points and put us in two playoffs. In one we classify and in another we don’t. But he had a team that was far from having the parchments of Marcos Calderón’s team. It is enough to have lived the previous four decades to realize that it changed the perspective we had of our selection. There was an emotional and football transformation. Letting go of bile is not having learned anything from all of the above.

—Does that 97 game against Chile still hurt you (it eliminated us from France 98)?

Yes, although after the first edition I can already see it with a little less hassle. It is not the fact of losing, but how it was lost. I have always believed that football is not a war, but that match was. Reynoso was even beaten by the police. A scoundrel. It was a humiliation surrounded by certain historical paraphernalia that made it hurt us more. He struck atavistic fibers.

—Gareca always escaped the term ‘revenge’ when asked if qualifying with Peru for a World Cup had that category due to the Gareca player who was left out of Mexico 86…

Getting kicked off the list after you scored the qualifying goal is catastrophic. It is a punch to happiness. He is quite diplomatic, but that anger towards Bilardo shines through.

-That’s how it is. But tell me, what do you think it would mean for Juan Reynoso to qualify for a World Cup after his injury in ’97?

I tend to be ironic with the generation of the nineties. But it was a talented generation. We had one of the best midfields in South America. But it was a period of deep depression for the country at all levels and the team could not be an island. I think that Reynoso has the beautiful opportunity to vindicate himself. Not as a player, because he was a great player, but to show us that it is possible to reverse the stigma that we do not respond in decisive moments.

—Did you expect this Reynoso to be close to the media?

It has been received with a certain faith. It’s a honeymoon. I want to see him when things don’t go well for him. That is when the Reynoso that we have seen in clubs could appear. In any case, it seems to me that he is not going to be as disproportionate as Markarián. Rewriting this book, Markarian’s stance toward defeat was extremely outrageous. He does not reach that absence of self-criticism. The problem with Reynoso is when he sees ‘ghosts’. But I think he has matured and has had experiences that have hardened him.

—There is a name that was not called for the first two friendlies in Reynoso: Gabriel Costa, who was claimed by many in the playoff against Australia. Why is this gentleman who is a figure in a competitive league not given a chance?

It’s what happens when things don’t go our way. Why didn’t you put that one? That is the history of Peruvian soccer. It seems to me that it is part of a post-Australia reaction. It will be difficult to get out of there and the one who can do it is Reynoso. A classification to the world-wide one would turn the painful and implausible current wound into a scar. And it doesn’t seem impossible to me: now there are more places. If eventually we have to play a playoff again, I’m sure Solomon Islands will be more careful.

—How difficult was it for you not to repeat yourself in this book when counting the games?

There is nothing more difficult than a soccer book because it is easy to fall into the repeated adjective. It is a world of few combined keys that achieve different scenarios, but the keys are delimited. And also the words. I have read the book four times, precisely so as not to repeat myself. Although sometimes it is unavoidable, I have tried not to do it. It is the great challenge that I have for when I should continue this book. It is not only a challenge with history but with language. I’ve tried to bring out the poet I have inside.

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