“Are they preparing another Cueva, another Carrillo? If the chain is cut you won’t go to the World Cup”

—Friend, confidante, partner at a distance. What is Ruggeri de Gareca?

I am the brother. The brother of life Ricardo is my family.

The relationship is almost 40 years old. How are two profiles that at first glance seem so inseparable, one more extroverted -you- and the other more reserved -Gareca-?

One reason is our wives. They are very friendly and of course, we come after them. Notice that I am godfather to one of his sons and he is godfather to one of mine. There is not a single week that we have not talked, even when he has not lived in Buenos Aires. It is a relationship that goes further, it is the whole family, the boys have grown up together.

—They played together in Boca, River, the Argentine team. How much did that strengthen you?

A lot, the pass from Boca to River in 1984 was a novel, it was not usual, they attacked us a lot, and that also united us. There were also years with the national team, we played the Qualifiers, with Peru in 1985, right here, in Lima.

—In the newsroom of El Comercio we remembered that on the day of the 1-0 in Lima, you came in and played 9.

Sure, I don’t forget anymore. We were there in a downtown hotel and with Diego, imagine, a million people outside, we couldn’t get out. Carlos (Bilardo) always asked for the upper floors and had us training there. It was a brave Peru and they were up 1-0. The substitute benches were down there, we were like bars and Bilardo managed, halfway through the second half, to unscrew everything and and released everything and that’s where we started to warm up…that’s where Carlos comes, He opens me, tells me: you’re going to play. I say: but how about Carlos, if we are losing (as if thinking that a striker should enter). But he orders me: you’re going to enter from ‘9 ′ and we’re going to throw you to the center to see if you can score a goal. I thought: I’m not going to touch it. And I didn’t touch her.

—In that tie you were a substitute and Gareca scored the qualifying goal. What happened so that a year later, in Mexico 86, you start and he is left out?

First, the pain of when Ricardo is left out. He was the nine goalscorer of the Argentine team, he had scored important goals. He scored the goal for Brazil. After I don’t know how many years we didn’t beat him. Then he scored the qualifying goal on River’s court, which was a miracle. I was convinced that Ricardo was going. In my case, I was a substitute for Trossero and Passarella, two lefties. But I had to go to River and I had a very good continuity there. Ricardo spent three months in River and went to Colombia and Bilardo no longer had him there, training nearby. It seems to me that he must have gone there, but with all the pain after what happened to us that Skinny was not there. It was unfair to me.

—Is it true that he returned from Colombia to Vélez in 1989 looking to go to Italy 1990?

Do not doubt it. He wanted to be in the national team, play for the national team. I talked about this with Bilardo. We met in a Juan B Justo bar. Bilardo told me that he saw me well, “you continued”, he told me. But Ricardo did surprise us all. He deserved to go to 86.

—How much of a Bilardo (obsessive, methodical, cabulero) does the Gareca coach have?

Bit. Oh yeah, passion. When we stopped playing, Ricardo and I did the course together and when we went to eat with our families, he would come to the restaurant and at the table he would grab the glasses, the knives, the cups, the little bottles, everything, and he would put together a team and say: “We’re going to do like this, I’m going to play like this.” Nothing occurred to me. He didn’t make me want to talk at a tactical table, about how he was going to put together his team. That’s when I realized that he was going to be a coach and that he was going to do very well.

—How did they distribute the work in Elche in 2003, in the books it appears that he was the assistant and you were the coach?

No, we were a duo, but in reality the coach was Ricardo. He had that passion.

—In 2018 he asked for a month to think about his renewal with Peru, then he confessed that he was hoping to go to the Argentine team. Would you have accompanied him?

Not in the coaching staff because it would be going back to that madness of living to a thousand. Maybe from the outside, as a sports director or something like that. In any case, I would have been close to him. As I was in Peru. Sometimes he would call him and say jokingly: “Is Carrillo already a starter?” I love Carrillo, uh, he always asked him to.

—Your stage as a coach was very short, but as a TV panelist you already have two decades. Will this role at ESPN be the definitive one?

I’m comfortable. I’m fine, I tried to find a place after being a player; some are assistants, others are dedicated to being businessmen, others to journalism. And it is true that today in journalism the role of panelists who are former players has opened up a lot.

—Regarding Passarella’s mismanagement as president of River, you were critical of the soccer player and his preparation for the “day after” retirement.

Actually, I’m critical. The soccer player has to prepare the day after retirement, because otherwise he may be left very unprotected. I myself feel that I could have prepared myself better.

—Do you feel that this previous preparation would have helped your version of coach?

Yes. I said I direct and and I did not demand the most important thing, which was the preparation of how to manage a group. How do you handle when there are I think four figures that possibly some of them don’t speak to each other? Directing is not just stopping the 11 or saying well, we are going to attack here, because they are here. I ran into very tough situations. I thought I was going to do well because it was…Ruggeri and it’s not like that.

“Was the Saric case the most fucked up thing to handle?” (N of R: midfielder Mirko Saric took his own life in 2000, as a player for San Lorenzo).

Yes, I made him debut in San Lorenzo, he was an incredible player, but incredible in all aspects. We had a very good relationship, even family. Everything until one day I was in concentration and he told me “I need to talk to you.” He thought that he was going to tell me “put me to the right to engage” or “you put me very forward”, but I find something else. He told me: I don’t find meaning in life.

– It threw you off.

Completely. I called his dad and told him: look, this happened to me and he has to see a specialist. And he told me no, don’t worry, they’re already treating him. Then time passed and the madness of what happened.

—Cases like this made you rethink the idea of ​​not having psychologists in the technical staff.

Yes, before we were reluctant to that idea. At that time, when we were kids, the first thing they said when they heard a psychologist was “he’s crazy” and it wasn’t that. Today the technical bodies are large in number of people also by specialists like this. That’s all I mean when I say prepare.

HIS LOOK OF PERU

—How do you see Peru without Gareca? Do you see a chance to take one of the 6 and a half slots?

For me, it’s going to compete. I think there is no doubt about Argentina and Brazil in the Qualifiers, they have taken a huge advantage over the rest. Afterwards, the others, it seems to me that they are going to have a difficult time. They say that Bolivia can be left out, but who is sure that they win in La Paz? They know they have a chance on their court, I wouldn’t rule it out, actually, they’re going to be in the fight.

—But what differences do you see between this Peru and that of Gareca?

It’s just that now I don’t know if the way Ricardo had been giving it has changed, if it’s totally different or not. I believe that (Juan) Reynoso has a marked path and it seems to me that this is an advantage.

—In Italy 90 it was a rarity that Roger Milla with 38 years as 9 from Cameroon, what marks you that Paolo, with 39, is the 9 from Peru?

But he’s going to be the headline now. The issue is that in three years, how are you doing? Guerrero for me is huge, they really had one of the best 9 in the world for me, but the reality is that, with how many will he reach the World Cup? At 42 years old, how do you do?

—It is evident that Peru is lacking replacement (N of R: Peru is the eleventh oldest, with 33.1)

It’s a bit competitive now with what they have armed, but you have to seriously ask yourself, what happens down in the minors? What happens in the lower ones? What is happening to him, because all his life Peru had very good players? The chain was cut, you have Guerrero 39 years old. Who replaces him?

—Lapadula, who is not born in Peru

Sure, they had to go looking for him outside, but in the clubs, are they preparing an Advíncula? Are they preparing a Carrillo? Are they preparing a Cave? They are going to leave, at any moment they stop playing. So that is the famous chain that we say: “The chain was cut”. And now you’re not going to the World Cups.

—How surprised you that Gareca was not still in Peru?

I didn’t understand what happened here, even though I was talking to him, I didn’t understand why he was doing a job. It seems to me that he had embarked on a path, he had marked a project and the project was being fulfilled, although the last Qualifiers were details that make you stay out, Peru lived up to it.

—Why do you think Gareca did not do well in his last stage in Vélez?

There are decisions that have to be made with your head and leave your heart at home. Go to the meeting with your head above all else and see how things turn out. Not because one arrives one thing changes and everything is rosy. No, I don’t go through that. I would have liked them to wait for a selection, with Ecuador it was very close, but I don’t know what happened. I didn’t like Bahrain. Neither did he and that’s why he didn’t take it, it seemed to me that it was a medium amateur team. I want him to continue linked to a selection. But he loves to direct and if a serious team comes along, I imagine he’ll accept it.

—Do you see Ricardo return at some point to train Peru?

Yes, I would love to.

Ruggeri and… Scaloni, Menotti, politics

—You were one of the few who approved of Scaloni.

Yes, him and the coaching staff.

—Didn’t you think it was a necessity to have trained before (Editorial note: Scaloni did not record previous steps as a coach)?

I liked that the coaching staff was a national team. They were contemporaries: Scaloni played with Messi. I like that.

—You were more critical of the AFA leadership than of the coaching staff, then.

Total. I said, you have to put together a selection project, that is not touched. It cannot be changing every 4 years.

—The thing about Menotti as a manager is more testimonial than real.

I said what I said (Editorial note: he asked for his resignation in 2019, because Menotti did not attend the Copa América arguing illness) because as a manager, no. It was better to put him as an honorary or a collaborator, if they wanted to chat. But day to day, traveling, not that.

“Is it impossible for that position to be for you?”

No, not anymore, that’s it, I’m already out. But hey, whenever they say something about the national team, it makes your hands sweat.

Have they called you from politics?

Yes a lot. I say no. If I stopped running because of the family, imagine the politics.

“From Massa, Bullrich, or Milei?”

Not before. Not now, because as I said no, they don’t call me anymore.

—Do you have a definite taste with a view to the October elections?

I want someone to stand up and make us Argentines stand up. I want us to have work, not to give away the money. I want dignity, that we return to be a brilliant country. How can there be kids in my country who don’t have enough to eat?

—Would you vote for Milei?

Yeah.